Thursday, May 01, 2008

Sister Shorthand

I had lunch with my Evil Sister yesterday. She treated, so that makes her slightly less evil. And it was a very expensive lunch, too! Why is my sister Evil? Because our birthdays fall one month and four years apart, and she loves, and I mean LOVES, to emphasize which one of us is OLDER. It's a good think I ordered the expensive shrimp salad.

But as we sat, I noticed how much we talk in shorthand. Sometimes we don't have to finish our train of thought--the other one fills it in. When we talk about a certain relative--they can read this and wonder--we don't have to go through the whole back story, we can cut to the present-day issue.

We couldn't be more different. They don't make 'em any more left-wing liberal than me. She's pretty middle-of-the-road. I am the "flakey, artsy" one. She's a homemaker and really, REALLY good at the job--meant as the highest compliment. You could eat off her floors. Me, you could find the makings of a buffet on my floor, but you wouldn't want to eat it. Me, we have funeral services when the goldfish die. Her? Well, you don't want to know what happened to her beta fish.

And therein, having just been a contest judge not too long ago, is one of the fundamental errors of dialogue. For some writers, it is so natural. The flow, the history, the backstory, the way people who are close to one another KNOW these rich histories in both silly and sad detail, the unresolved crap, and funny stories, the way people simply are. And they have an ability to WRITE that way. So that you BELIEVE that people are actually having this conversation in exactly this way, as if you're just eavesdropping.

And some writers? Filled with tags and falseness. I have NEVER said to my sister, "Well, SIS . . . " I have never said to her, "Remember that time when we did this or that as a family in the summer of 1972, you would have been 6 then, and if you remember, that was the year you loved the Beatles, and . . . ." In families, there's a shorthand. Our role as writer is to write the dialogue in a way that is utterly natural . . . and yet doesn't leave the reader TOO far out in the Land of Confusion. It's a fine line, and I think it's either easy for you or it isn't.

I don't need to be told cops and undertakers have a morbid sense of humor. Just let the dialogue tell me that. I don't need to be told teachers sometimes bring home this sing-song kindergarten-teacher voice to their own families. Show it. Let the dialogue do its dance. Sisters are close? Show it.

True story . . . once I brought an old boyfriend home with me for a weekend. My sisters (I have two) hadn't seen each other--all in the same room--in a while, at least 8 or 9 months at that point. I had long since moved out, one was off in college, and so on. We were excited to see each other and conversation flew. About five minutes into it, he started laughing. I asked him why, and he said (remember, my sisters and I are New Yorkers), "I JUST realized you were speaking English."

"What do you mean?" I asked him.

"This whole time, you three were talking so fast, it didn't sound like English. I assumed you lapsed into Polish or Russian when you were all together."

THAT'S how fast we spoke, like some strange staccatto.

Capturing "THAT" precise way of family and friends . . . is the writer's task.

So tell me . . . do you notice clunky dialogue? Doyou speak shorthand with someone? And how does this all translate into your dialogue?

Labels:

33 Comments:

Blogger Jude Hardin said...

Great post, Erica!

With dialogue, I think I nail it pretty good sometimes; other times, I'm not so sure. If you or anyone else around the campfire would like to take a look, I've posted a dialogue exchange I wrote recently here.

I have a thick skin, so don't be afriad to be brutally honest!

8:38 AM, May 01, 2008  
Blogger Erica Orloff said...

Hi Jude:
Thanks. Most of the time, I think I nail it, too.
E

8:48 AM, May 01, 2008  
Blogger Mark Terry said...

I think I'm pretty good at dialogue. Dialogue and action. Scenery, not so much. I also like to use a certain number of "ums" and "ers" and in particular, there are two things I like to do in dialogue that I think are very real. One is have characters interrupt each other, because, you know, that's how people talk. And have them talk over each other. Like:

"I can't believe you think Dad--"

"--I do, too, I was there!--"

"--would say something like that."

The other is the importance, for me, of having characters about to say something and either hesitate or change their mind, but to do it in a way that lets the reader know that what they were thinking of saying.

"Look, we all know the president is a... um, can base his decisions his gut feeling instead of listening to his advisors."

My son recently wrote the first 30+ pages of a novel or something, and pretty much stood over us as we read it. He's 14, so it's got some oddities in it, but what both my wife and I noticed was how good his dialogue is. Really, really good. Maybe he really is going to end up writing for TV or film. Now, structure... well, as I suggested to him, there were sure an awful lot of characters introduced here. He confidently says, "Well, I don't think there's any more to introduce now."

"Oh, good. You think fifteen was enough?"

9:18 AM, May 01, 2008  
Blogger Erica Orloff said...

Mark:
LOL! Fifteen . . . is that all? :-)

As for talking over each other . . . You must be a Robert Altman fan. That was always a hallmark of his films, and you can almost KNOW an Altman film by that . . . It's very "real" and his films can seem strange if you're not used to them. (If you're not a film buff . . . you may never have "noticed" how in most films one character talks, then another, then the first one--they give each other the "space" for their dialogue, which is absent in Altman).


E

9:22 AM, May 01, 2008  
Blogger Mark Terry said...

Well, I like "MASH," but hated "Gosford Park." Although it wasn't everybody talking over each other that annoyed, it was everybody talking over each other with thick British accents and the fact everybody seemed to be mumbling. (And the fact that it was a murder mystery where the murder didn't occur until about the last half hour of the film). Oh yeah, and "The Player." LIked that one quite a bit.

9:37 AM, May 01, 2008  
Blogger Erica Orloff said...

MARK:
LOL--I LOVED Gosford--probably my favorite of his films, though it was nice to have it on DVD so I could replay parts if a missed a snippet of dialogue.
E

9:43 AM, May 01, 2008  
Blogger Jude Hardin said...

To me, a little bit goes a LONG way when it comes to "reality" techniques in written (or even in filmed) dialogue. If we actually transcribed a real conversation, much of it would be boring and confusing--not good adjectives when it comes to fiction and films.

9:53 AM, May 01, 2008  
Blogger spyscribbler said...

How cool! I'd've loved to hear you and your sisters in sisterese!

I like to play with dialogue, play with what they're not saying, and play with what they're saying when they mean something else. I don't like dialogue that imparts information; I like it to show character and conflict and move the story forward. Especially conflict.

Dialogue is one of my favorite parts of writing. :-)

9:53 AM, May 01, 2008  
Blogger Erica Orloff said...

spy:
Yeah . . . I've blogged before about how important it is for dialogue to leave things unsaid. In real life, so much often is.

E

9:55 AM, May 01, 2008  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey, Jude. I read the dialogue bit and thought it was good. It certainly set up a conflict and raised plenty of questions. I also thought you did a good job of creating a sense of exasperation through dialogue alone.

Here's something I learned from Erica that might come in handy ... people often talk about what they're doing, as well as talking about what they're talking about. If that makes any sense. In other words, the coffee-making scenario is positioned as a way mainly to break up this conversation. There is one bit when the MC is offered cream and sugar, but in my imagination, all I could see were two guys standing there, staring at a coffee maker as it burbled away and they discussed plot. Just for my taste, I think I would like a few more action tags to describe what they're doing after so-and-so makes the coffee, something to make the setting real. Ideally, these action tags could be related to the exasperation the first guy is feeling, some piece of body language to let me know that he doesn't appreciate Colt's line of questioning, or thinks it's ridiculous.

JVZ

9:59 AM, May 01, 2008  
Blogger lainey bancroft said...

I positively abhor clunky dialogue.

Or, I hate that sh*t!

LOL you and your sisters speaking Polish or Russian. Groovy talks like that--staccato, high pitched, musical expressive voice--9/10 times when she tells us something she's excited about, Gas needs a full translation.

I like writing dialogue best and characters usually show up with a clear voice and speech patterns of their own. My first drafts are almost all dialogue. As I 'listen to the characters talk' it helps me get to know them.

10:02 AM, May 01, 2008  
Blogger Jude Hardin said...

Great suggestions, Jon. Thanks!!!

10:03 AM, May 01, 2008  
Blogger Erica Orloff said...

Hi Jon:
Wow . . . I can't believe you;ve learned anything from me. :-)

(Just kidding, gang . . . my writers' group is, at least for me, a series of Ah-ha moments.)
E

10:14 AM, May 01, 2008  
Blogger Erica Orloff said...

Lainey:
I'm similar--not all dialogue, but more dialogue than description, which I go in a layer later.
E

10:15 AM, May 01, 2008  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I must admit, dialogue is not one of my strengths. It's something I have to work at. I find that I get distracted by extraneous BS, that characters often run their mouths, or that I am working too hard to make sure the dialogue advances the plot.

I almost have to approach dialogue as a separate story, layered within the action-oriented story. The dialogue is the story of character and person-hood, of relationship. I tend to like books with complicated and tricky plots, so I have sometimes had the problem of treating dialogue (and, sadly, the characters themselves) as static pieces in my God game.

Oh well. Working on it all the time ...

JVZ

P.S. Laney, I love the nicknames in your house.

10:19 AM, May 01, 2008  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Shoot, Erica, you're the MASTER of dialogue ...

JVZ

10:21 AM, May 01, 2008  
Blogger Erica Orloff said...

JVZ:
Well, I bow to the master of plot.

And you-know-who is the master of poetic description.

E

10:29 AM, May 01, 2008  
Blogger Jude Hardin said...

This post has been removed by the author.

10:34 AM, May 01, 2008  
Blogger Stephen Parrish said...

"I like writing dialog," he said, "more than anything else."

The most amateurish sounding dialog is that which suffers from information diarrhea:

"I don't know what you mean," she retorted, turning her back to him and pouring the coffee.

"Oh yes you do," he rejoined, staring at her back while he fumbled with the keys, his foot still throbbing with pain.

One of us ought to run a "worst dialog" contest.

10:56 AM, May 01, 2008  
Blogger Edie said...

Love the story about you and your sisters. My sister and I are probably the same way.

I'm reading Tell No One by Harlan Coben, and love the short, staccato sentences in his dialogue. I like shorter sentences in dialogue. That's the way most people talk.

I'm stealing Mark's trick of people changing the subject in the middle of sentences. Don't know why I didn't think of it. I do that all the time when I'm talking.

10:56 AM, May 01, 2008  
Blogger Erica Orloff said...

Stephen:
Too painful to run a contest like that. LOL!
E

11:08 AM, May 01, 2008  
Blogger Erica Orloff said...

Hi Edie:
Yeah . . . love when we find those natural elements to put into dialogue.

E

11:09 AM, May 01, 2008  
Blogger The Anti-Wife said...

Good dialogue brings me into a story and bad dialogue can cause me to put a book down forever. Thanks for the insights. Off to check my WIP for crappy dialogue.

12:58 PM, May 01, 2008  
Blogger J. L. Krueger said...

I have three Evil Sisters! Which is a bit redundant since they are my sisters!

Anyway, loved the wee anecdote.

Dialog...my favorite to write too. I prefer pushing the story with dialog rather than description. Yet when it comes time to cut, I also find that that is where I find the most "cuttable bits."

1:02 PM, May 01, 2008  
Blogger Erica Orloff said...

Anti-wife . . .

I'm similar. I'll skim a too-descriptive section. But bad dialogue puts me over the edge.
:-)
E

1:09 PM, May 01, 2008  
Blogger Erica Orloff said...

JLK:
I pity them. ;-)

E

1:10 PM, May 01, 2008  
Blogger Ello said...

I am admitting to worrying about my dialogue for exactly the reasons you have catalogued. But that fine line is so hard to see as the writer sometimes. Which is why good readers are so essential!

LOve the story about your sisters! My sister and I have eye and face signals that are a conversation onto themselves!

1:19 PM, May 01, 2008  
Blogger Erica Orloff said...

Hi Ello:
Me and my sisters are all "talk with your hands" kind of gals, too.
E

1:57 PM, May 01, 2008  
Blogger J.K. Mahal said...

There's a saying in the artificial intelligence world that true AI won't be possible until computers can have a "married conversation."

"Honey, where's I put that thing."
"It's on the table, where you left it."

I think families speak in a similar shorthand, knowing what the other member is talking about without having to be told.

Jen

2:23 PM, May 01, 2008  
Blogger Erica Orloff said...

JK:
My best friend and I can have entire conversations with only a word or two. Like if a commercial comes on for a movie starring Tom Cruise (whom we both loathe), I can go, "Oh my Go-"

"I know."

"Can you--?"

"They keep greenlighting them."

And so on. We don't even have to talk!
E

3:02 PM, May 01, 2008  
Blogger Ewoh Nairb said...

"Do you notice any clunky dialog?"

Only the stuff I write :)

6:19 PM, May 01, 2008  
Blogger Erica Orloff said...

ewoh:
I "thought" we weren't going to beat ourselves up anymore. ;-)

xo
E

9:07 PM, May 01, 2008  
Blogger Zoe Winters said...

"Well, Erica..." :P

Yeah I notice clunky dialogue. And dialogue that sounds fakey. I think dialogue is one of my better things. Possibly because I talk so freaking much.

I remember being sad the first time I heard someone talk about how so many writers are introverted and they think a lot and listen a lot and that's why they're good writers.

And I was like "Hell, I'll always suck then Because I'm nothing like that."

I'm always talking and interacting.

12:56 AM, May 02, 2008  

Post a Comment

<< Home