Tuesday, July 22, 2008

Why Do Writers Need an Editor?

Yesterday I had an hour and a half phone call with my editor for Magickeepers. This was a follow-up to 4 pages of singles-spaced notes on the book. In a few places on the 'net, lately, writers have been wondering, in essence, about the editor's role. So I thought I would blog about it.

First, I hope no one reading this blog thinks they don't have to polish their work because "an editor" will fix it. Oddly enough a long while back, I was directed to an ongoing debate over on a writer site in which this one guy kept pontificating that it was up to him to have the really great big idea, not to learn where to put commas. My guess is that guy . . . is still unpublished.

Will a misplaced comma sink your chances? No. But 50 misplaced commas in chapter one will. I know anytime I've been asked to read submissions and I see that, I just am frustrated that a writer would so seemingly willfully disregard the basics, or not even have a beta reader or SOMEONE in their writing world to tell them what they're doing wrong grammatically. Same with contest judging when I see some very, very basic elements that are clumsy. Obviously, these writers all think their work deserves to win a contest, which means many writers have serious self-delusion.

An editor, in addition to not being willing to fix 50 misplaced commas and typos, also can't "fix" a "meh" book or a voice that is unoriginal or bland. They can't fix fundamental, core issues that have to do with HOW you write. With your very existence/voice as a writer.

So what the hell ends up in 4 single-spaced pages of notes? Particularly, you might ask, for someone who edits and has edited for a living and has been published before? Well . . . a lot.

My editor is new to me, and we had lunch in Manhattan a while back and I was stuck by how bright he is. I don't think he reads this blog--he's too damn busy--so I am not sucking up. The guy is smart. His notes basically started with "You are a great writer"--no not really, but most editors DO start with something along those lines--"Here's what I like." If you have no idea what's working, it's hard to know what needs fixing. He loves the book.

His notes are then organized in the way he works--first section are story arc issues. These are my big themes, if you will. The WHY, the HOW, the REASONS my hero does what he does. I had left some things unexplained. Part of the storyline involves these rather robber baron magicians racing around the world to reclaim relics lost during the fall of the Romanovs. But I hadn't felt it was important to see just how the relic in question in this book fell into the hands of The Bad Guys. My editor disagreed. In fact--going back to the "You are a great writer paragraph"--what he thinks really works is all the history and the REAL people in time from Czars to magicians to famous authors--who interact with the fictional family. Since he wants even more of what works, the obvious choice would be to show how the relic changed hands through time.

Additionally, the arc notes encompass some "rules" in the book/worldbuilding where it's too subtle yet. I knew I had three books, at least, to play with, but there's a sense of making sure Book I has got a lot of meat to it.

The next section is about worldbuilding--what works, what needs more, more, more because it IS working, so build on it.

Next is the conclusion--went too fast, he felt. After the lengthy phone call, we decided rather than a chase ending, we're going with something more sinister. More of a CHOICE the hero has to make. It's much, much more meaningful (choosing the light vs. choosing the darkness; vs. the choice being out of your hands because of a chase/circumstances). That change was devised during the phone call--which was like brainstorming but more directed.

Everything else was fleshing out certain elements, working on two characters to make them more three-dimensional (they're secondaries, but more could be done with them), and more about pulling in some "reveals" I intended later so that things are clearer for my middle-grade audience.

By the end of the call, I was adding two HUGE key characters, one back story about the hero, and a huge icool item from Book II was being pulled into Book I because it's too darn awesome to save for Book II.

There are a thousand more details and notes I took during the call. But basically, when I look at it all, my editor is helping me go deeper and guiding me to the places where it CAN go deeper without harming story.

Now, why couldn't I do this myself?

I think that's a complicated answer, but it boils down to this. Every draft you take your book deeper, until one day, you must cut the cosmic umbilical cord and let your baby go--to an agent, an editor, to print. Until it goes to print, theoretically, you could improve it. We all can. But the cord gets cut . . . at some point the baby's got to learn to walk on its own. This is the point where a hopefully brilliant outsider, with insights into his list and audience, guides you to the places in that "one more chance" to polish, to add, to push yourself deeper. If you haev written a book where you've said, "I can't do anything more to it"--chances are you haven't had this kind of edit. I now I've given this kind of edit. It's not someone telling you what to do, it's a lot more like pushing you to bare it all on paper. That next level, that other level. And it isn't for cowards, and it isn't for people not willing to be brutally, ruthlessly honest with themselves about their work.

When I got the notes (prior to call), I didn't ONCE feel protective. Everything was going to make the book deeper. And on the call, not ONCE did I react with any "but this is why I did this . . ." or "but this is my story . . ." "but you're not seeing . . . " "but . . ." I didn't feel hurt, sensitive, never used the word "but." Nor did I defend. I DID twice, say, "I was saving that for Book II, here were the hints." In once case, we're leaving it, in the other, I'm getting more obvious.

I do know this kind of editing isn't for wimps. ;-) And it's a process I know I am very lucky to undergo. And to be honest, though I am blogging about this particular set of notes, I have gotten this kind of detail for all my books. However, I do think the YA/middle-grade gets more concerned with the themes. The archetypes.

Thoughts?

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34 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Great post on the nitty gritty of the editing process ... and I'm glad to hear the call went well.

I have stages I go through when I get this kind of feedback. The first, honestly, often begins with a "But..." It's not that I'm protective of my book (usually), it's that I'm annoyed the editor/reader didn't understand what I was trying to do.

Stage two is acceptance. If they didn't get it, then I didn't do it right. This is the stage in which I prick the balloon of my ego with a sharp pin and let all that hot air rush out.

Next comes the working part. I totally agree: everything has to be on the table. Everything. Sometimes it helps me if I cut a favorite scene or rewrite a major chunk just to see if it works. We have to be relentless critics of our work.

But mostly, I think you're totally spot on about this process requiring major intestinal fortitude. It's very hard to constantly go deeper, to work the same story over and over, to address the weakest parts of yourself. In the end, I think it's such a great thing to get an opportunity like that. It's so great to work with an editor who can help take a book to the next level and the one beyond that. That alone is worth the pain of the process.

JVZ

9:26 AM, July 22, 2008  
Blogger Jude Hardin said...

One of my dreams is to work with an editor like that. Lucky you!

9:30 AM, July 22, 2008  
Blogger Mark Terry said...

I don't think I've ever received editing like that, although in general the editing I have received has been useful and interesting.

9:41 AM, July 22, 2008  
Anonymous Amy Nathan said...

I think they key is someone is so vested in your work. I've been fortunate to have beta readers and teachers who pull my work apart so that I can put it back together and make it better.

But...

I think the amazing editing comes along with your experience and publishability. Does that make sense? I have someone who has been reading my work pretty much all along, but who forgets from chapter to chapter some key details, making some comments and edits seem hapless and renders them useless.

I believe I am my own first line of defense. I'm better when edited by someone else, but if I don't edit myself first, I'm not presenting my best work. I get frustrated if I allow someone to read something and the comments and edits are "duhs" to me. I can eliminate that by only allowing someone to read what I consider "good enough for now."

Do you think that someone who does not have a real editor can get the kind of feedback that leads to something polished and perfected?

As for secondary characters, funny you mentioned them. I realized as I've been reading lately that my own secondary characters need more of their own personalities and lives. Not that I want my book to be an ensemble story, but I think that the lives of these characters can add to the story, and I'll add the bits in when I go back for a final rewrite.

OK, now my coffee is cold!

10:00 AM, July 22, 2008  
Blogger Aimless Writer said...

Four pages! Wow!
But if it makes the book better...its all good, right?
I think sometimes we've been living with the book so long in our head that we can't see the forest for the trees.
I wonder if editors have an inkling of fear when they call the first time authors with their comments. I can imagine they never know how the author will react.

10:01 AM, July 22, 2008  
Blogger Ello said...

I would love that kind of feedback. I think a writer cannot evolve without it. You are really lucky! And every tantalizing glimpse you give to Magickeepers makes me wild to buy it and read it!

10:27 AM, July 22, 2008  
Blogger Sarah Laurenson said...

I love a good edit. And it helps my writing improve by leaps and bounds.

I hate when I give a good edit and it totally gets ignored and then I'm asked for another edit.

11:35 AM, July 22, 2008  
Anonymous LaDonna said...

Erica, I love this blog! I had one glorious experience with an editor. The process made me a better writer, and it was invaluable.

11:46 AM, July 22, 2008  
Blogger Erica Orloff said...

Hi Jon:
I have to say that once or twice I have felt that sting with editing notes, mostly because I didn't mesh personally with the editor. But most of the time, yeah, EVERYTHING is on the table.
E

12:29 PM, July 22, 2008  
Blogger Erica Orloff said...

Amy:
I think some beta readers are THAT good. JVZ (first comment here) is a killer critique partner. I think we both edit each other to that degree. But it's tough, yeah, to find that.
E

12:31 PM, July 22, 2008  
Blogger Erica Orloff said...

aimless:
Funny . . . he asked me to do a totally new chapter one BEFORE I got the notes. I did. Then he realized I could be really ruthless about working . . . and he was absolutely open and honest in the notes. I do think they sometimes feel you out.
E

12:32 PM, July 22, 2008  
Blogger Erica Orloff said...

ello:
Well, since Da Man loved your book--I want to see it too! :-)

E

12:33 PM, July 22, 2008  
Blogger Erica Orloff said...

sarah:
I hate that too. I sometimes think those writers think "Edit me" means "tell me how brilliant I am."
E

12:33 PM, July 22, 2008  
Blogger Erica Orloff said...

Hi Ladonna:
Hopefully you will get that chance again soon!
E

12:34 PM, July 22, 2008  
Blogger spyscribbler said...

That sounds awesome! I totally don't want you to think I think an editor is an unneeded thing at all, and that they're not a huge part of what helps make a book much better. I agree with all that. I, at least, expect myself to get to a professional level at it. These sorts of things have been pretty much my focus for the past couple years.

There's nothing to be defensive or protective about at all, and it's not scary.

This sort of thing is a blast. How can one not help loving it? It's a huge boost up for the book. It's fun. It's exactly like playing in a Master Class, at least for me. :-) Although I believe in the whole positive sandwich, being a teacher, I tend to be like Stephen: I personally throw away the bread.

I always feel huge relief that my story won't go out there with holes in its underwear. But until I get that more often or find a NY-able story, I just have to push myself to do it myself and better. What if you suddenly found out you would have no editor: wouldn't you have sat down and gone through it at least once more, a little differently, to compensate? Are you certain you couldn't've found at least some of this stuff if you took some time, stepped back, cleared your mind and went into editing mode?

2:12 PM, July 22, 2008  
Blogger Erica Orloff said...

Hi Spy:
The way I look at that question is the way I guess I might look at a therapist, or a yoga teacher, or a Tae Kwon Do teacher--or a piano teacher. ;-)

Yes, can I put on editing hat and find some of those things? Yeah. But much as a really wonderful therapist might pull insight from a client, or a wonderful ballet teacher will lure a better leap from a dancer, so an editor will pull MORE. That next level. Did Nureyev really NEED someone to critique his dancing? Was he not amazing? Yeah. But even he would have a director, someone to make sure the performance went to even greater heights.
E

2:45 PM, July 22, 2008  
Blogger Merry Monteleone said...

Hi Erica,

First, I'm with Ello, I sooo want to read this series... I need to play catch up, because The Roofer is on my 'must buy soon' list too..

I don't know why some writers take such an odd and self-destructive stance on their writing. 'That's what an editor is for...' I agree with you, someone who says that is not really that interested in putting out the best work they can.

I just beta read for someone, and this is the first time this particular thing has happened, where I honestly didn't have any substantial crits... a few typo's, that's it. I was shocked. There were places where, grammatically, there should have been a comma, but it was in this voice that worked better without it - it wasn't a, 'I don't know the rules' thing, it was a choice that worked for the timing and inflection of the character, and it was damn good.

Anyhoo, why do I always get long and windy here? I'd love an editor like that. I think that kind of time and dedication to really pulling the best out of the writer and the story is fantastic.

2:52 PM, July 22, 2008  
Blogger Melissa Blue said...

You know my editor is brillant. I don't know if it's just easy for her, but she sends me the changes three chapters at a time. She reads those three and if I left something out or if it needs another run through she sends them back. Then she sends me the whole shebang where we go over the big picture stuff that needs fleshing out. Sometimes she very specific (usually when I've written something inconsistent) Other times she says, "such-n-such isn't working." And then she gives me suggestions and then says, "I'm sure you will come up with a better idea."

I'm sorry, but the author may know there work, but at times that is the problem. Fresh eyes are needed. Plus, the author also needs someone to trust they will do what's best for the book. An editor-author relationship is a partnership.

Maybe if more authors saw it that way they wouldn't be so defensive about changes needed to be made. Also, if they think of it as a partnership they won't just "leave it up to the editor". Be it grammar/punctuation or believing the editor knows best and their word is God.

The story has to come first, so that's why writer's need editors.

3:22 PM, July 22, 2008  
Blogger Melanie Avila said...

I cross my fingers that I have an editor like that someday. I have a beta that is brutally honest and I love her for it - it'll make my story so much better than if she was wishy-washy about things.

3:28 PM, July 22, 2008  
Blogger Erica Orloff said...

merry:
As odd as it sounds . . . I run into that consistently--not among "pros" (and by that I mean anyone--pubbed or not--who approaches writing with a totally professional outlook) but those who think, "Sure, I can write a book"--and set out to do so thinking a really cool idea will mean not only a best-seller but a movie deal.

3:29 PM, July 22, 2008  
Blogger Erica Orloff said...

melissa:
What more can I say? That's exactly it. :-)
E

3:29 PM, July 22, 2008  
Blogger Erica Orloff said...

melanie:
A beta reader like that is worth his or her weight in gold.
E

3:36 PM, July 22, 2008  
Blogger Ewoh Nairb said...

Everyone can benefit from a pair of trained eyes, no matter how good they are at their respective craft.

I've come to the realization recently that letting go of any significance related to my writing and what anyone might say about it (good or bad) is about the best thing I can do. Making editorial comments or suggestions mean something about me as a person is ridiculous.

Having that kind and level of editorial input and professionalism is just another inspiration for me to hone my craft and keep writing.

Thanks for another fascinating view into the life and times of professional writing Erica.

4:15 PM, July 22, 2008  
Blogger Jude Hardin said...

Everyone can benefit from a pair of trained eyes, no matter how good they are at their respective craft.

I agree. I've experienced Erica's awesome editorial skills first-hand, making this post even more relevent for the rest of us.

9:34 PM, July 22, 2008  
Blogger Zoe Winters said...

I think "but this is why I did this" is a completely legitimate thing to say in a discussion about one's book. While I can take good crit, it's still my book, and I'm not going to agree with every single suggestion. I think a good editor is in tune with that particular writer.

i.e. when I get back suggestions I'm going to know somewhere deep down that about 95% of what this person is telling me is spot on, and the other 5% I half agree with. And the stuff I half agree with, I'm going to want to discuss.

I realize books are collaborative efforts, but HOW collaborative it should be, I'm just not sure.

1:24 AM, July 23, 2008  
Blogger Erica Orloff said...

ewoh:
As JVZ and I have been saying lately--it's ALL on the table, subject to letting go.
E

6:38 AM, July 23, 2008  
Blogger Erica Orloff said...

Hi Zoe:
No one is going to do EVERYTHING an editor suggests. The two new characters, for instance, that I mentioned--all my own invention ins response to something that may be lacking.

I think my "but this is why" comment refers more to writers who defend and defend and defend, instead of being quiet and LISTENING and absorbing what an editor is saying. If you trust your editor, then if they are telling you something isn't working . . . WHY you did it doesn't matter. It's not getting across to the reader. Writers who defend everything, to me, are too hypersensitive yet to go through this process for real. It's not about a thick skin but about going deeper and pulling out the best book.

Believe me, I once had a crackpot editor. :-) But even she had some very cool ideas.

E

6:42 AM, July 23, 2008  
Blogger Melanie Avila said...

Erica, after reading her notes on my draft, I told her I'd be naming my first child after her. :)

1:56 PM, July 23, 2008  
Blogger SmartlikeStreetcar said...

Fantastic post, Erica.

God, I can't wait for the series.

3:37 PM, July 23, 2008  
Blogger spyscribbler said...

LOL, Erica, we might be debating two entirely different topics.

To compare it to music, then, I would never call myself a professional musician if I couldn't learn, prepare, polish, and perform a piece without a teacher.

If there's a particularly important-to-me performance, I always call my old teacher and see if she'll give me a lesson, if I can afford it. (Or sometimes if I just feel in a rut.) If she's out of town, I don't cancel the performance. And if I screw up the performance, the responsibility of that lies with me, not with me not having had a lesson.

6:08 PM, July 23, 2008  
Blogger Erica Orloff said...

Hi Spy:
Oh, sure. Can you pull it off without one? Of course. I just think assuming you reach some level and don't need one, or you can break in without one . . . is a mistake. I actually don't think we're debating at all. My post was really meant to show what the process is/can be.
E

7:38 PM, July 23, 2008  
Blogger Zoe Winters said...

hahaha Erica, fair enough. When I say "but this is why I did this" it's more to say: "Okay, this is going to be revealed this way later, do you still feel the same way about it?" If my (crit readers at this point) still feel the same way in light of that, I know I have to figure out a new way to bring it out if it's not coming across right.

6:52 AM, July 24, 2008  
Blogger peter.w said...

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8:39 AM, August 19, 2008  
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8:48 PM, August 21, 2008  

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